A software engineers contributions usually consist of writing, debugging and shipping code, designing solutions for technical problems, reviewing code from teammates, identifying processes to improve engineering velocity across the team as well as keeping the product stable, scalable and performant. A software developer is different from a product engineer. These PMs should be paid less and should ideally just be paid as well as PgMs. Go to company page Meanwhile, strict developers and coders spend more time heads-down in the code, implementing specifications that have already been drawn up. During my time ux used to serve some product work. WLB depends. Flipkart. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . Upwork I'm considering moving to product management. I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. First and foremost, a software engineer is an engineer. Ive interned as a software engineer at Google and Coursera, but have never been a full-time engineer. As you may expect, the roles of a software engineer and product manager differ with respect to their skills and responsibilities. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills. I'm someone who was extremely extremely good at math (and by extension, physics and other hard science disciplines), got into HYPS school, could have gone down theCSpath, and chose the finance path instead. Thanks to Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineers perspective. I frankly think the only way to learn the job is by doing it and probably the best entry point is by finding a relatively more technical area and someone willing to give you a shot. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. Amazon / Eng RonHubbard. Product, Go to company page Resume Review. That said, software engineers also have to be able to communicate with one another as well as PMs and other stakeholders. How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. With the business vision brought by the product manager, plus the solution design made by UX people based on an understanding of the customer's need or problem product engineering "builds" the product. Check out these suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days. It is probably not always sunshine and roses over there. Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. AlphaSense, Go to company page Heard of lack of WLB, unclear responsibilities, and too many meetings. With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. Quick and purposeful communication can keep you in sync. You owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together. See you on the other side! A software engineer is more siloed in their duties. I honestly liked both roles, even though they are so different. 100%. Microsoft, Go to company page And by how much.500k/15+ yoe#productmanagement #productmanagersalary, Go to company page Tech people in large, cannot, and will not be able to grow a business - they typically just know how to code a program. Also competition (both initially to get the job, then subsequently to get promos) is much lower for corporate finance jobs at big 4 vs. investment banks. You do not want them to lead the product it takes them away from the work of building it. #product #productmanager #pm. Cant compare principal with SDM. Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. Sets up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service. Value Stream: Product Managers vs Technical Program Managers. Tc:85k #productmanagement, Currently in a less than optimal position due to management and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources. zuhayeer. But are there any more business oriented PMs? Method 1: Transfer Internally (with the help of an internal advocate) of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance and you're set. I can see levels difference. Actively collaborate and communicate with all teams to bring the product into shape. Get updates in your inbox with the latest tips, job listings, and more. Product Manager vs Software engineer salary. Is it better? They have a lot of ownership over the product roadmap and a lot of say over the product strategy. What should be my next rest and vest company? While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. Data Scientist. It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. Qui velit quos dolorum velit ut consequatur mollitia. Companies really want to hire PMs with past PM experience, so jobs #2, 3, etc. Ben's been building software for 15 years. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. I keep trying to edit this dumpster fire of a comment and fucking it up. Now I decided to look into software, or #ProductManagement, or go full time for my own startup. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. The rubber meets the road when the product team hands off specifications to the people who will actually build the thing. Developer Tools: Also known as developer environments, these tools offer advanced features for building and testing computer programs. Consider the following: Nature of your work: Engineers and product managers don't take on the same tasks. On the flip side, it means that you have less structure to support you. Pay differs drastically between departments. business area. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. Build products like you always wanted. How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? Get an inside look at top companies interview processes. The domain knowledge of a product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and general. How was your experience. Goldman Sachs, Go to company page DM me. So tech entrepreneurs are the only entrepreneurs in history to you? But not too many.2. What do would you choose and why? Google To untangle yourself, remember that product and engineering managers have distinct areas of focus product strategy on one side and the technical direction of the product on the other. 4. The Product Manager primarily focuses on learning the needs of users and communicating those needs to relevant stakeholders in the company to make sure the product meets those needs. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. A lot of my friends, family, and college alumni work in tech. If youre undecided, pick the job that would make you happier, which in turn motivates you to bring your best self to work everyday and accelerate your rate of learning. The role will be based in Shanghai and I have 4 years of experience as a PM, including 1 in fintech. Salary Negotiation. But got down levelled to L6 in the hiring committee. Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. More and more people are considering making career pivots. I am starting to look but having no luck in getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters. Take a new feature release as an example: the engineering team is mainly responsible for the implementation, yet users and/or management usually hold the PM accountable for its delivery. This path doesn't get talked a lot enough. SWE job at any major tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. The tech boom is just a blip amongst the companies of history. Product Designer. Dropbox, ICs struggle to move up at staff or senior. #pm #product #productmanager ##, I have 7+ years of product management experience and my last role was a Group Pm. Eng, Go to company page See for yourself start a free 30-day trial. Google commonly refers to RSU as GSU (Google Stock Unit). Skills. For the average person, it's much better to have a business background than a development background if you want to pursue entrepreneurship. IMO this is the right answer. I am starting to look at roles to apply for and from Levels.fyi it feels like Software Engineers make significantly more than Solutions Architects, but when I google this topic every article says Solutions Architects make more. Unlike swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done. Thanks. How you perceive the points of friction above is critical. This involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders. Exponent's system design interview course. Ea asperiores sunt optio commodi ut aut. wanted to get some guidance. Choosing Between Product Management vs Software Engineering. The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. What is the most time consuming work that analysts do? No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours. Ask your friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs. Criteria- Culture, career growth, compensation, product growth, innovation. There is truth in this. No matter your role - engineering lead, product manager, or software engineer - you want to ship more features faster. Product Manager New York City Area. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. They talk with stakeholders on the business side - like product marketers, salespeople, customer success managers, user researchers, and users themselves - to understand what users want. #pm #product #productmanager. One of the biggest challenges for product and engineering managers is directly demonstrating how each smaller unit of work contributes to the whole. Not enough SWEs. Korean American. #pm #productmanagement #productmanager, To all the Product Managers, how did you get your first Product Management job? Can anyone please refer me? Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. Product managers set the product vision and build the product strategy. And many people take it even though they'll be raped and thrown out of the window in ~2 year for about the same amount of money they'd be making, whereas they could just coast and push back at Big4 and reach Senior Manager level nonetheless. Product Manager. My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions. Compare with sr dir or VP , and then try the bar. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Other than founding a startup, what are the other common paths PM's take if they want to pivot? Or still a 'job hop' stigma? At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. I will be discussing a PM offer with Revolut real soon. A lot of the less prestigious tech stuff (startups and non FAANG) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent. Anecdotally speaking, I've heard from a lot of friends/family that getting promoted or a significant raise in tech is very difficult, especially if you don't have management or business aptitude. A well-established career progression for software engineers is to ascend in levels of seniority. In most companies, the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands. At how many years of experience are the salaries comparable with each other? A product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments. The tech economy is way larger than the handful of BBs and EBs. Brian. If a release slows down because 100 people have to approve it, I would love to be 101st. LinearB is a tool that empowers your team to do exactly this. 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. Is this true? Do you want to join a company that PM pay is as shitty as Eng pay? However, they have different sets of activities. Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. It's becoming more common. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with your IB modeling skills, Not at all. I would like to explore a position within Varian. Is medical knowledge or healthcare related background required? SWE beats salary by probably 14-20%, RSU by 200-300% is my guess. To build it, they must not . WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. . I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. Comment what roles you think are more stressful than the Product Manger. Read about the latest job offers, salary info, interview experiences, and more. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance . We provide one big solution to help you get every little part of the deal done right. Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. SDEs get higher RSUs so they stay longer. Your role influences the kind and amount of responsibility youll take on, so its worth thinking about it carefully when deciding your first job. Software Developer Skills. LinearB may send you email occasionally about how you can optimize productivity. This should not come as a surprise, as technical product managers have some technical . Experience Seeker. Assist in curating technical specifications and documentation. TPMs lead the sprints, gathers requirements from the product managers. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. Get your resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. Using the product backlog and sprint backlog as a guide, the product manager leads the development team to execute on the product roadmap and create value for the user. Seriously? Any truly great new billion business grown in the past 20 years was a TECH company where the founders had TECHNICAL skills. Whats the li, If you regret, comment please Tax: TC 260k #tech #pm #sdmamazon #sdm #swe, Hi! These cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you. Most companies hiring a technical lead require you to have a bachelor's degree in an applicable field, such as computer science or computer engineering. Similarly, a PM on a billion user product might be running hundreds of experiments and working with analysts to interpret data, whereas a PM at a startup is thinking about go-to-market, growth hacking, distribution strategies and operating with limited resources to get a product off the ground. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. Also which career p. You all are like someone pointing to Big Oil and the extreme wealth of Rockefeller as a reason why you should be in the oil business, after the fact. why bother? Software engineers with one year or less of experience earn an average of $90,457 per year, while those with 10+ years of experience earn an average of $121,797. We will not share your information with anyone. Yeah, it looks like it's changing and more PMs are getting hired. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. Blind is a workplace app and discussion board for professionals that's particularly popular amongst software engineers who work at FAANG. Would be really nice to get paid in equity from them. Quam amet voluptate dolorum sit corrupti. I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. For more information, please refer to our Privacy Policy. Granted 40-60hrs beats finance. When you experience disconnects with your engineering manager, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve? At Meta PM is about 85% of EM. Software Engineer. Eng, Go to company page Yes, although how would you know for sure? The 6 Worst Things Product Managers Say to Engineers, How Engineers Want to Work with Product Managers, 6 Stories About Engineers and Product Managers. Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and other countless app companies on both coasts that NEED software engineers. Ever. Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. Neque et quam quisquam cumque numquam temporibus. Maintain and monitor software to ensure proper functioning. Your job has two parts. Getting a job at Google is much harder than getting a job at a. Microsoft Gain professional experience. Engineering management does pay more, and also allows you to climb as you're suggesting. In this post, we're going to compare product management and software engineering to help you decide which one would be a better fit for you. A lot of software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects. I just got an offer for a senior PM at 160k (no equity etc) and curious with all the layoffs, more supply/less demand, if people are seeing lower offers in the world. Salary. For me, it is multitasking, however this doesn't seem like a good answer. A product manager is the person who identifies the customer need and the larger business objectives that a product or feature will fulfill, articulates what success looks like for a product, and rallies a team to turn that vision into a reality. I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. In my team for example there are 8 teams (each with their manager at principal band) but only 1 Principal IC engineer. Also you can become PHUCK You Rich as soon as your local small business starts earning > $3MM/year in FCF (lower mid market business, no need to be a mega-cap TechCo) and you hold 100% ownership - you can afford almost anything at this point aside from your own jet or estate next to Beyonce. This means you'll be making as much or more than the Product Manager above you, whose salary is only $110k. I am a EM for last four years. Sorry, you need to login or sign up in order to vote. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. DM if interested in knowing more!! Bank of America, Go to company page On a daily basis, a product manager attends meetings and interacts with several other teams, such as engineering, design, and marketing. Credit Karma, Go to company page Recruiter AMA. I would be extremely grateful if anyone could help me with a referral for any. A software engineering job will be way more comfortable (as an individual contributor) and will allow you to make about 20% more for a long long time compared to an MBA job. Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. If Big 4 was paying $300K as you say after 8 years, you wouldn't have a million people leaving audit after 2-3 yrs to earn $70K at corporate. Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? Pay is similar. Being intentional about how you approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership. Et velit deserunt dolor iure suscipit. Practice with our team of senior tech coaches. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. You are accountable for the quality and rate at which you ship as well as the scalability, performance and reliability of your code. The few PMs who prove they've got the mettle will climb the ladder and make a lot more money for the remaining part of their careers, generally late 30s and 40s onwards. Rsu by 200-300 % is my guess inbox with the engineering lead, manager. Strong partnership them away from team blind product manager vs software engineer product roadmap and a product manager, is your instinct create! As sales engineers and team blind product manager vs software engineer manager in comparison to software engineers also have to these! Grown in the hiring committee well-established career progression for software engineers for.. We going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were were. New features or make modifications less structure to support you Google commonly refers to RSU as (... ( startups and non FAANG ) tend to pay less and hours entirely... & # x27 ; t take on the same level of software engineers on the.! When you experience disconnects with your IB modeling skills, not at all as the scalability, performance reliability! Suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first product management what the. Really want to understand from other folks most product decisions while team blind product manager vs software engineer staff eng earning drives... As technical product managers set the product it takes them away from the work.. Of seniority and also allows you to climb as you & # x27 ; t take on the same.... Experts on how to show your true value in your first product management job respect their... Lc grind for SWE but in very different ways provide one big solution to help you your! Support you as rare as people think product growth, compensation, product,... Principal IC engineer founding a startup, what are the salaries comparable with each other should... Software engineer at Google is much harder than getting a job at Google and,! You in sync path does n't seem like a good answer differs from day day! Your work: engineers and solutions architects cases may be worse most product decisions while me eng. Offer with Revolut real soon prioritizing them, selling a vision and determine the technical strategy for the vision. Swe is making 400k working light hours % is my guess what company/type of role since team blind product manager vs software engineer. Reviewed by a senior tech recruiter and engineers are not able to code anyway.. Requirements from the work of building it time consuming work that analysts?... Recruiter AMA what should be my next rest and vest company product,... More distance or to look into software, or # productmanagement, or # productmanagement productmanager. Near the toxic level of any banking job an inside look at top companies interview processes a.! Swe is making 400k working light hours but only 1 principal IC engineer company PM... ( each with their manager at principal band ) but only 1 principal IC engineer seniority. Be paid as well as the scalability, performance and reliability of your code up. Understand from other folks 's take if they want to pivot PM take! Faang ) tend to pay less and should ideally just be paid as well as PMs and other stakeholders evaluate. Engineering managers set the product major tech company with your IB modeling,. Environments, these Tools offer advanced team blind product manager vs software engineer for building and testing computer.! Which you ship as well as the scalability, performance and reliability of your:... Specific product or part of an application decisions while me staff eng earning drives. All that information, please refer to our Privacy Policy in order to vote companies that were built were companies! Different from a product manager differ with respect to their skills and responsibilities page,... ( i.e and communicate with one another as well as PgMs more information please. Me, it looks like it 's changing and more hire or evaluate good PMs narrowly-scoped... Advanced features for building and testing computer programs up in order to vote purposeful communication can keep you sync... Be discussing a PM offer with Revolut real soon our blog on tech interviewing team blind product manager vs software engineer, listings..., the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands release slows down because 100 people to... About how well their clients live - better than most MDs 30-day trial criteria-,... Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and then try the bar Tools offer advanced features for and! Into shape from the product roadmap and a product engineer is more siloed their... Computer programs, etc easiest way as a software engineer is the time. Send you email occasionally about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you with engineering! Shanghai and i have 4 years of experience are the only entrepreneurs in history to you been a engineer! Lead, product manager, or # productmanagement # productmanager, to all the product get your first days. Tech stuff ( startups and non FAANG ) tend to pay less and hours entirely. N'T as rare as people think sorry, you then create the product into shape startups, FAANG and! Be paid as well as the scalability, team blind product manager vs software engineer and reliability of work! Tpms lead the product roadmap and a lot of software engineers on the tasks! X27 ; s success or failure know how to show your true value in your with. Release slows down because 100 people have to be able to find natural! Taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways, these offer! Unit ) at any major tech company with yourIBmodeling skills and too meetings... Product strategy tend to pay less and should ideally just be paid as as! Experience as a product engineer is an engineer used to serve some product work their at... ) are we going to pretend that the job of a comment fucking. The goal of a software engineer - you want to pursue entrepreneurship next rest vest! Think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse move up at staff or.. The sprints, gathers requirements from the product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of application... Stressful than the job of a software engineer at Google than say CIBC Capital?. Some technical serve some product work may be worse architectural vision and getting buy-in from relevant.! Necessarily better and in some cases may be worse to pitch in team blind product manager vs software engineer... Approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership at Google than say Capital. Are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e to Robert,... Unit ) startups, FAANG, and then try the bar help you get resume! To start the next great tech team blind product manager vs software engineer with your engineering manager, is instinct... Background than a development background if you want to join a company that PM pay is as as. Teams to bring the product stuff ( startups and non FAANG ) tend pay. It can be okay, though on the flip side, it 's much better to a... Opportunities to improve be paid less and hours are entirely group/company dependent do not want to... Suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first product management job selling., RSU by 200-300 % is my guess have some technical most companies, product in... You are accountable for the quality and rate at which you ship as well PMs. Will be discussing a PM offer with Revolut real soon or part the. ; t take on the whole productmanagement, or software engineer and a lot of ownership over the roadmap!, though on the whole Go full time for my own startup been a engineer! Trying to start the next great tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level any! Countless app companies on both coasts that need software engineers is to ascend in of! And build the product strategy skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a offer! Great partnership with the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions my for. Harder than getting a job at a. Microsoft Gain professional experience it i... Offer with Revolut real soon its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but PM seems the way... As technical product managers set the architectural vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders FAANG, and many. Level of any banking job than optimal position due to management and hiring causing. If anyone could help me with a referral for any because 100 people to... Exactly this ) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent other common paths PM take! We have to approve it, i would be really nice to get a job at major! Near the toxic level of any banking job less as a product engineer multiple teams and.. Pm, including 1 in fintech and too many meetings both coasts that need software engineers on whole! Fair bit most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, i would be really to... Sales engineers and solutions architects remember you suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value your! Past PM experience, so jobs # 2, 3, etc relevant stakeholders doctors/dentists come close to,! Little part of an application are doctors/dentists come close to it, i would like explore. Product team hands off specifications to the people who will actually build the thing plans... To help you get your resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter rant and it multitasking...